Legislature(2001 - 2002)
04/23/2002 01:11 PM House TRA
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
April 23, 2002
1:11 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Vic Kohring, Chair
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair
Representative Drew Scalzi
Representative Peggy Wilson
Representative Mary Kapsner
Representative Albert Kookesh
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Scott Ogan
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Carl Morgan
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 523
"An Act naming the state airport at Dutch Harbor the Charles
Thomas Madsen, Sr., Airport."
- MOVED CSHB 523(TRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 358
"An Act naming state ferries."
- MOVED SB 358 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 502
"An Act relating to the designation of and funding for rustic
roads and highways; and providing for an effective date."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 500
"An Act relating to the advance acquisition of real property for
public purposes."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 523
SHORT TITLE:MADSEN AIRPORT AT DUTCH HARBOR
SPONSOR(S): COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
04/19/02 3030 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
04/19/02 3030 (H) TRA
04/23/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: SB 358
SHORT TITLE:NAMING STATE FERRIES
SPONSOR(S): RLS
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
04/03/02 2610 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
04/03/02 2610 (S) TRA
04/09/02 (S) TRA AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
04/09/02 (S) Moved Out of Committee
MINUTE(TRA)
04/10/02 2708 (S) TRA RPT 4DP 1NR
04/10/02 2708 (S) DP: COWDERY, WILKEN, ELTON,
WARD;
04/10/02 2708 (S) NR: TAYLOR
04/10/02 2708 (S) FN1: ZERO(S.TRA)
04/11/02 (S) RLS AT 10:30 AM FAHRENKAMP
203
04/11/02 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
04/12/02 2751 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 4/12/02
04/12/02 2752 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
04/12/02 2752 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING
UNAN CONSENT
04/12/02 2753 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME SB 358
04/12/02 2753 (S) PASSED Y19 N- E1
04/12/02 2754 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
04/12/02 2754 (S) VERSION: SB 358
04/15/02 2923 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
04/15/02 2923 (H) TRA
04/23/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 502
SHORT TITLE:RUSTIC ROADS AND HIGHWAYS
SPONSOR(S): TRANSPORTATION
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/27/02 2408 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/27/02 2408 (H) TRA, FIN
02/27/02 2408 (H) REFERRED TO TRANSPORTATION
03/05/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
03/05/02 (H) Heard & Held
03/05/02 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
03/05/02 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
03/19/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
03/19/02 (H) Heard & Held
03/19/02 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
03/26/02 (H) TRA AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 17
03/26/02 (H) Heard & Held --Time Change--
03/26/02 (H) MINUTE(TRA)
04/18/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
04/18/02 (H) -- Meeting Canceled --
04/23/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 500
SHORT TITLE:ADVANCE ACQUISITION OF REAL PROPERTY
SPONSOR(S): TRANSPORTATION
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/27/02 2407 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/27/02 2407 (H) CRA, TRA
04/04/02 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
04/04/02 (H) -- Meeting Canceled --
04/11/02 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
04/11/02 (H) Heard & Held
MINUTE(CRA)
04/16/02 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
04/16/02 (H) <Bill Postponed to 4/23/02>
04/16/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
04/16/02 (H) <Bill Canceled>
04/23/02 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
04/23/02 (H) Moved CSHB 500(CRA) Out of
Committee
MINUTE(CRA)
04/23/02 (H) CRA RPT CS(CRA) 2DP 1DNP 3NR
04/23/02 (H) DP: SCALZI, MEYER; DNP:
HALCRO;
04/23/02 (H) NR: KERTTULA, MURKOWSKI,
MORGAN
04/23/02 (H) FN1: ZERO(DOT)
04/23/02 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE CARL MOSES
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 500
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as the requestor of HB 523.
STEPHANIE MADSEN
213 3rd Street, Number 204
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 523 in memory of her late
husband, Tom Madsen.
FRANK KELTY, Former Mayor of Unalaska
P.O. Box 162
Unalaska, Alaska 99685
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 523.
SINCLAIR WILT
P.O. Box 502
Unalaska, Alaska 99685
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 523, conveying the story of
how Tom Madsen saved his infant daughter's life.
BETTY ARRIAGA
P.O. Box 920466
Dutch Harbor, Alaska 99692
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 523, telling how Tom Madsen
saved her life.
PAMELA FITCH, Mayor
City of Unalaska
P.O. Box 920067
Dutch Harbor, Alaska 99692
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 523, echoing the sentiments
of prior speakers and giving support to the renaming of the
Unalaska airport.
JIM BIRD, Physician Assistant
Ilinliuk Clinic
P.O. Box 920166
Dutch Harbor, Alaska 99692
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 523, giving an account of
the night he flew with Mr. Madsen to save a young girl's life.
KELLY HUBER, Staff
to Senator Rick Halford
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 111
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 358 on behalf of Senator
Halford, who as Senate President had been a judge of the
statewide contest to name the ferries.
MIKE KRIEBER, Staff
to Representative Vic Kohring
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 24
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 502 on behalf of the House
Transportation Standing Committee and explained Version T;
presented HB 500 on behalf of the House Transportation Standing
Committee.
JEFF OTTESEN, Planning Chief
Division of Statewide Planning
Alaska Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801-7898
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 502, offering the
department's philosophical opposition.
DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 9981-7898
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 500, saying the department
agrees with the concept but prefers the original version.
WENDY LINDSKOOG, Director
External Affairs
Alaska Railroad Corporation (ARRC)
P.O. Box 107500
Anchorage, Alaska 99510-7500
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 500, saying ARRC supported
the bill in its original version.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 02-11, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR VIC KOHRING called the House Transportation Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:11 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Wilson, Scalzi, and Kohring;
Representative Kapsner arrived soon thereafter. Representatives
Masek and Kookesh arrived as the meeting was in progress.
HB 523-MADSEN AIRPORT AT DUTCH HARBOR
CHAIR KOHRING announced that the first matter before the
committee would be HOUSE BILL NO. 523, "An Act naming the state
airport at Dutch Harbor the Charles Thomas Madsen, Sr.,
Airport."
[HB 523 was sponsored by the House Community and Regional
Affairs Standing Committee at the request of Representative
Moses. In packets was a proposed committee substitute (CS),
Version F.]
Number 0143
REPRESENTATIVE CARL MOSES, Alaska State Legislature, assisted in
presenting HB 523 to the committee. He explained that [Version
F] would name the state airport in the City of Unalaska in honor
of Charles Thomas Madsen, Sr., who was tragically killed in a
plane accident in Juneau on April 10, 2002. The Unalaska City
Council and surrounding communities fully support the bill to
honor a pilot who gave so much to the people of the Aleutian
Chain.
Number 0200
REPRESENTATIVE MOSES informed members that Mr. Madsen, a bush
navigator for nearly 20 years throughout the Aleutians, was well
known for willingly risking his life in order to save others.
He was instrumental in many medical emergencies and search-and-
rescue operations. In one instance, Mr. Madsen knowingly flew
in a storm with winds of over 100 miles per hour to save the
life of a young child who had ingested a fatal amount of iron
pills. He said Thomas Madsen epitomized the term "bush pilot"
by selflessly putting others' needs above his own, to meet the
needs of humanity. The residents of the Aleutian Chain will
fondly remember him both as the owner of Aleutian Air Limited
and for his heroic acts. Representative Moses concluded that
renaming the City of Unalaska Airport will enable Mr. Madsen's
memory to live on, for generations to come.
Number 0337
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI noted that he would be offering an
amendment to simplify the title by changing it to the "Tom
Madsen Airport," which would better reflect how Mr. Madsen was
known. He cited the Ted Stevens International Airport [in
Anchorage] as one with a simplified name.
Number 0385
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK moved to adopt the proposed CS, version 22-
LS1705\F, Utermohle, 4/19/02, as the working document. There
being no objection, Version F was before the committee.
Number 0410
CHAIR KOHRING asked Representative Scalzi what his amendment
would specifically change the name to.
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI answered that it would be Tom Madsen
[Airport].
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK asked that the amendment be applied to the
title, to line 5, and to line 6.
Number 0470
CHAIR KOHRING asked if there was any objection. There being no
objection, the foregoing was adopted as Amendment 1.
Number 0482
STEPHANIE MADSEN testified before the committee in memory of her
late husband, Mr. Madsen. She said Mr. Madsen was a private
man, but one-on-one, he was very poetic in his description of
life in the Aleutians. She characterized him as a lifeline for
many communities in the Aleutians. She thanked the committee
for the speed with which the bill had moved along. She showed a
picture of Mr. Madsen with his airplane, "The Aleutian Spirit."
He was privileged to be doing what he enjoyed the most, Ms.
Madsen said, adding that he was "a great guy."
Number 0674
FRANK KELTY, Former Mayor of Unalaska, testified via
teleconference. He said Mr. Madsen's flying and level of
service were of the same caliber as those of the famous pioneers
of Alaskan aviation. He recounted how Mr. Madsen flew all over
the Aleutian Chain carrying, among other things, mail and
children. He asked the committee to move HB 523 with speed. He
said it is a great honor to have the city's airport named after
Mr. Madsen.
Number 0845
SINCLAIR WILT testified via teleconference. Speaking in support
of HB 523, he recounted how Mr. Madsen had saved his daughter's
life 15 years ago. His 14-month-old daughter had ingested [what
would be] a fatal dose of iron tablets. The poison-control
clinic said she needed to get to a hospital or she could die.
The weather was too severe for a Medivac plane to land in
Unalaska. At first, Mr. Madsen had said the weather was too
poor, but later he'd called back, claiming to have seen a break
in the weather. Mr. Wilt said he himself saw no such break, but
had figured Mr. Madsen just couldn't bear to think about if it
were his own child.
MR. WILT explained that those were the days before the Unalaska
runway was paved or lighted; all of the police patrol cars were
lined along the runway to illuminate it on that stormy night.
Mr. Wilt conveyed to the committee how Mr. Madsen would only
allow physician assistant Jim Bird to accompany him and the
child on the flight for the sake of weight. Mr. Wilt said it
was a very long night waiting for word that his daughter had
arrived safely in Anchorage.
MR. WILT told the committee that Mr. Madsen had made numerous
more lifesaving flights after that. Therefore, it was only
right and fitting to honor Mr. Madsen by naming the airport
after him. He urged the committee to pass HB 523.
Number 0980
BETTY ARRIAGA testified via teleconference. She told the
committee how Mr. Madsen had flown her to Cold Bay after she'd
had a heart attack. She said she didn't think she would be
[alive and] testifying if it hadn't been for Mr. Madsen.
Number 1026
PAMELA FITCH, Mayor, City of Unalaska, testified via
teleconference, voicing support for HB 523. She characterized
Mr. Madsen as a wonderful man, and said renaming the airport for
him was an accurate representation of how the community felt
about the man.
Number 1067
JIM BIRD, Physician Assistant, Ilinliuk Clinic, testified via
teleconference. He gave his condolences to Mrs. Madsen and went
on to tell about the night he flew with Mr. Madsen and Mr.
Wilt's infant daughter. He talked about the measure of a hero,
and he told how Tom Madsen fit that description.
Number 1551
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK told how growing up in a small, isolated
village on the Yukon River helped her relate to the valor of Mr.
Madsen's actions.
CHAIR KOHRING concluded that the testimony went far towards
showing what a wonderful person Mr. Madsen was.
Number 1601
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK moved to report CSHB 523, version 22-
LS1705\F, Utermohle, 4/19/02, as amended, out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
There being no objection, CSHB 523(TRA) was moved out of the
House Transportation Standing Committee.
SB 358-NAMING STATE FERRIES
CHAIR KOHRING announced that the next matter before the
committee would be SENATE BILL NO. 358, "An Act naming state
ferries."
Number 1646
KELLY HUBER, Staff to Senator Rick Halford, Alaska State
Legislature, presented SB 358 on behalf of Senator Halford [who
as President of the Senate had been a judge for the contest to
name the ferries]. Ms. Huber told the committee the bill was a
response to a statewide essay contest organized by Lieutenant
Governor Ulmer to name the next two ferries to be constructed.
The contest took place among children in grades 2 through 6.
There was widespread participation, and wonderful essays. As a
result, the two ferry names chosen were "Fairweather" and
"Chenega." Ms. Huber reminded the committee that Alaska state
ferries must be named after glaciers. Ms. Huber said the bill
was sponsored by the rules committees of both houses, at the
request of both the Senate President and Speaker of the House.
She asked that SB 358 be passed out of committee.
Number 1691
CHAIR KOHRING asked what communities were involved in the
contest.
MS. HUBER said the contest was statewide and included
correspondence students and homeschoolers. The girl who won
with the ferry name "Chenega" was a homeschooler from Ninilchik.
Number 1778
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK moved to report SB 358 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes. There being no objection, SB 358 was moved out of the
House Transportation Standing Committee.
HB 502-RUSTIC ROADS AND HIGHWAYS
[Contains discussion of HB 473, which had been combined into HB
502 and then removed; contains discussion of HB 8, a portion of
which is included in Section 4 of HB 502, Version T]
Number 1792
CHAIR KOHRING announced that the next matter before the
committee would be HOUSE BILL NO. 502, "An Act relating to the
designation of and funding for rustic roads and highways; and
providing for an effective date." [In packets was a proposed
committee substitute (CS), Version T, labeled 22-LS0822\T,
Utermohle, 4/15/02.]
Number 1806
MIKE KRIEBER, Staff to Representative Vic Kohring, Alaska State
Legislature, testified on behalf of the House Transportation
Standing Committee, sponsor of HB 502. He reminded members that
HB 473 and HB 502 had been merged because of common ground. Due
to insufficient common ground, however, the bills had been split
once again after there was conference with committee members and
Representative Green, sponsor of HB 473.
MR. KRIEBER said Version T has all references to HB 473 stripped
out of it. Donlin Creek's mention as a rustic road was removed
from Section 2. In addition, funding percentages were modified.
Page 4 [paragraph 2] brings funding for the community
transportation system back up to 33 percent. [Paragraph] 4,
page 4, increases the funding for the Trails and Recreational
Access for Alaska (TRAAK) system from 4 to 5 percent. He
pointed out that "rustic roads" include trails, so recreational
opportunities will be increased. Also expanded would be "safe
linkages."
Number 2046
MR. KRIEBER further explained that Version T contains a new
addition on page 5 [Section 4]. He told of a "road task force"
bill [HB 8] that had passed the House and was still in the
Senate Rules Standing Committee. The task force would address a
list of roads and determine what actions could be taken to
implement their construction. Version T places that list of
roads in HB 502. The task force portion of the bill would not
be included, however.
MR. KRIEBER pointed out that instead, Version T requires the
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF) to
carry out the study. The report would list the roads and any
other linkages or rustic trails, and identify whether they
should be a rustic road or trail or should be part of the
community transportation system, national highway system, or
state highway system. He told the committee the report would
identify the costs, potential environmental issues, and the
permitting schedule, and would provide a proposed funding
schedule. He said the report would give the legislature a tool
for determining whether to fund these roads.
Number 2164
MR. KRIEBER discussed the issue of applicability as found on
page 7. A July 1 implementation date would cut the department
short for adequate planning. Version T would allow an extra
year for implementation in order to allow the department to get
into the next STIP [Statewide Transportation Improvement Plan]
cycle so that it could carefully merge the new funding program
into its long-range planning process.
Number 2209
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI moved to adopt the proposed CS, version
22-LS0822\T, Utermohle, 4/15/02, as the working document. There
being no objection, Version T was before the committee.
Number 2241
JEFF OTTESEN, Planning Chief, Division of Statewide Planning,
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities, testified
before the committee, noting that the department had worked with
Mr. Krieber to make the bill work and not "leave money on the
table." Nevertheless, he stated the department's philosophical
opposition to the bill. He characterized the reduction of the
TRAAK program from 8 to 5 percent as a key problem with Version
T. Over three years, this would take $36 million from a large
number of projects across the state that could use the funding.
Another problem would be the strict design standard imposed in
statute that some roads may not be paved.
MR. OTTESEN announced that AS 19.10.160 specifies that the
department will follow the design standards of the American
Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials
(AASHTO). He said AASHTO had recently released a new standard
for low-volume roads; it is a national standard and must be
followed. He told the committee that departmental decisions
about what to do with a road aren't simple management decisions,
but are public-process decisions. The department goes to the
public and environmental agencies; there are many interests to
satisfy. The bill would take that management, as well as the
political and public process, and put it into statute, thereby
taking away a great deal of flexibility. Regarding Section 6 of
Version T, Mr. Ottesen said the department has been looking at
new, low-volume roads in its "area plan process" for several
years. He gave the examples of upgrading the road from
Williamsport to Pile Bay and a new road on the North Slope as
projects the department has been reviewing.
TAPE 02-11, SIDE B
Number 2328
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI mentioned the road from Williamsport to
Pile Bay and said it is one reason he supports the bill. He
stated that the department was told of the wish to see the road
built in the 1980s, and it has taken until now to "get it on the
horizon." Another category would allow the road to make it on
the list and be identified [for construction].
MR. OTTESEN said the new STIP category - the Alaska Highway
System - has approximately 40 roads. Most are existing state-
owned roads, and several are proposed roads. Included in that
list is the road from Williamsport to Pile Bay. He said 8
percent of the STIP would go to this new category of roads,
which he characterized as very similar to the rustic road
category. The main differences would be that the department's
list is changed by regulation, not statute, so roads could be
added more quickly, and that the design standard could be
determined through the aforementioned public process. The
change took place on March 8, 2002, so it hadn't had time to
work yet.
Number 2245
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI said it sounds as though the department is
doing the same thing as HB 502. He asked if the diversion of
TRAAK monies would still yield the same amount of federal funds.
MR. OTTESEN said the state would still get the same amount.
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI asked if the lower design standards would
affect the federal TRAAK funds.
Number 2211
MR. OTTESEN cited AS 19.10.160:
The department shall prepare and adopt uniform
standard plans and specifications for the
establishment, construction, and maintenance of
highways in the state. The department may amend the
plans and specifications as it considers advisable.
The standards must conform as closely as practicable
to those adopted by the American Association of State
Highway and Transportation Officials.
MR. OTTESEN said that since statehood, the department has
followed this statute, which protects the department from tort
claims.
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI responded that many of proposed roads had
been built before statehood and the statute. He asked what
percentage of [the new proposed Alaska Highway System] was built
prior to 1958.
MR. OTTESEN said the new system is made up almost entirely of
roads owned by the state, and people are already driving on
them. Many roads are in remote areas; they have not fared well
in the STIP process since 1995, when the state established the
National Highway System, Community Transportation Program, and
TRAAK. He noted that community donations, community maintenance
contributions, and traffic volume [drive priority in the STIP].
He characterized these remote roads as the "orphans" of that
system. He restated his belief that the main differences
between the rustic roads and roads in the Alaska Highway System
are that the latter would be established in regulation, and that
the bill would impose a no-pave standard.
Number 2114
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI said it sounded as though deviating from
federal standards would not be an issue because most of the
roads had been built before AS 19.10.160; therefore, there would
not be a problem with maintaining the roads.
MR. OTTESEN pointed out that every time a road is rebuilt, the
current standards must be considered.
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI read from the statute, saying, "as close a
practicable". He surmised that the department would have a
great deal of latitude because of that.
MR. OTTESEN replied, "There is a lot of latitude until you're in
a court of law and someone says, 'There's not a guardrail there,
and why not? The standard says there should be.' And then your
latitude looks pretty thin at that point." He gave the example
of single-lane roads and how those present problems of
standards.
Number 2043
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked how long some of the projects in her
district would be postponed as a result of the $12 million being
removed from the TRAAK.
MR. OTTESEN characterized Representative Wilson's question as a
difficult one because lower-scoring projects may be trumped by
higher-scoring projects. The lower-scoring projects linger
because of the program's being shrunk.
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON expressed concern about that. She asked
if the state could wait to see how it would work out. She said
she has new concerns about the bill.
Number 1954
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH expressed concern about what the bill is
trying to accomplish since it has been split from HB 473. He
said it was supposed to be a House Transportation Standing
Committee bill, but he didn't help draft it and doesn't even
know its purpose.
CHAIR KOHRING said it was from his office and was labeled a
House Transportation Standing Committee bill because it was
filed after the February 15th deadline for personal legislation.
MR. KRIEBER added that the purpose of the bill is to address an
area where the department has not provided focus in the past -
looking at new roads. He complimented the department for "the
Northwest Plan" and said it is starting to make some movement
towards economic development roads, but he said the department
is not looking at the smaller, basic linkages that help in
lowering the cost of living in areas. In areas where people
must fly in and bring fuel in, people have higher costs, as does
the state where there is power cost equalization (PCE). He
indicated it is a policy issue for the department with regard to
coming forward and making recommendations on how to spend money
on [the rustic road] category. Delaying the bill would [cause
three years to be lost] because of the 2004-to-2006 STIP cycle.
Number 1800
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked why the department's new category
would not work.
MR. KRIEBER characterized the department's new category and the
rustic roads category as very similar.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked: Why not have a bill that says
there is a rustic road category that adds to what [the
department] has already proposed?
MR. KRIEBER answered that the bill assigns a funding percentage
to [the funding categories]. The rustic road funding category
would still allow money to be spent on roads identified as
rustic; enhancements could still be made. He called it a policy
issue of the legislature. It would help small-scale projects
get done.
Number 1725
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked how the fiscal notes would be
figured.
MR. KRIEBER answered, "What this bill provides is allowing the
use of the rustic road fund category to fund this project
without identifying them as rustic roads specifically."
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON mentioned $12 million coming out of the
TRAAK funding.
MR. KRIEBER said the cost was internal. The department will be
able to go out and do a "real" study. He characterized the task
force study as ineffective. The bill would provide a funding
source for improvements, to focus on the roads listed as well as
any others that come forward. However, it doesn't provide
incentive for DOT&PF to pave roads with low usage. He took
issue with Mr. Ottesen's position on the public process and
cited the Hatcher Pass Road as one where the public-input
process failed.
Number 1603
MR. KRIEBER said with regard to the TRAAK funding, the scores
count. New projects can bump projects that have been on the
list for ten years. With the implementation [in Version T], the
department is provided two years of current funding in the STIP
to carry it out.
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON said the bill would cost her district
three projects. She asked what difference would be made by the
economic study on any other projects in her district.
MR. OTTESEN said it would not make any difference. The money
would come out of the same rustic road money discussed earlier -
the $12 million shifting from TRAAK to rustic roads, and another
$4 million from the Alaska Highway Program.
MR. OTTESEN said the department had been looking at the short
roads - roads to landfill sites, water points, barge points and
others - and building them. The next category up - roads that
link villages and allow them to share infrastructure - have been
held up by environmental processes and agencies. He told the
committee it is not a lack of departmental will; it is the
process that slows the construction of the roads. He said
getting to "yes" and permits in hand is the hardest part of the
process.
Number 1466
CHAIR KOHRING offered that the goal of the bill is to ensure
funding that would open up more areas for access and economic
development; it is also to promote recreational access. He
concluded by saying he didn't want to push the bill in the
absence of the committee's consensus. He indicated HB 502 would
be held over.
HB 500-ADVANCE ACQUISITION OF REAL PROPERTY
Number 1388
CHAIR KOHRING announced that the final matter before the
committee would be HOUSE BILL NO. 500, "An Act relating to the
advance acquisition of real property for public purposes." [HB
500 was sponsored by the House Transportation Standing
Committee. Before the committee was CSHB 500(CRA).]
CHAIR KOHRING noted that the bill's purpose is to accomplish
having right-of-way property well in advance of construction of
a particular project. This would allow the state to buy
property when prices are low and thereby save money.
Number 1358
MIKE KRIEBER, Staff to Representative Vic Kohring, Alaska State
Legislature, presented HB 500 on behalf of the House
Transportation Standing Committee, sponsor. He read from the
sponsor statement:
Infrastructure development is key to economic
development throughout Alaska. Right-of-way corridors
are required to access resources and markets, enhance
interstate commerce, and improve Alaska's quality of
life. Economical transportation utilities are vital
to developing Alaska's raw resources and value-added
products. Lowering the cost of developing these
corridors would allow Alaska's resources to compete in
national and international markets.
Many times, proposed resource extraction projects are
hindered due to lack of established right-of-ways to
access the sites or to move resources to market. In
urbanized areas, the public process to identify new
[rights-of-way] for transportation and utility
corridors for past-due projects can extend over long
periods. This results in bitter battles, pitting
neighbor against neighbor, and ending up with many
dislocated property owners. Skyrocketing right-of-way
costs and more expensive construction costs result in
delay of projects and fewer projects statewide.
MR. KRIEBER explained that the bill is intended to address the
problem of having no statutes to allow for the identification
and preservation of corridors for future use. He cited the
example of the Parks Highway, a 1.5-mile project for which the
right-of-way costs have risen from $4 million to $21 million.
There was also an eminent-domain case on the project that was
awarded to the department. Mr. Krieber outlined a "snowball
effect" of costs triggering higher costs.
Number 1213
MR. KRIEBER spoke to the issue of rights-of-way for private-
property owners. People purchase property for certain reasons,
for example, a retirement home; a major utility corridor or new
road could impact the retirement home. Mr. Krieber said a
solution to that problem is the development of a process that
identifies the corridors, memorializes them, and allows
utilities or the department to pre-acquire the right-of-way.
This would provide the public with adequate public notice that a
project is coming up, and give the public adequate information
when there is a purchase of property.
MR. KRIEBER said the bill concentrates on eminent domain for
advance acquisition, but only when certain prerequisites are
met: the proposed future use is not too speculative, the need
of the property must be reasonably foreseeable, and it must be
in a long-range transportation plan such as found in a
municipality or borough.
Number 1145
MR. KRIEBER summarized by saying the bill would result in direct
benefits: decreased right-of-way acquisition costs and
accelerated permitting of future transportation and utility
projects. Resource-extraction and value-added industries will
be able to capture emerging markets when the conditions are
right, by the knowledge that their projects can move forward in
a shorter timeframe. He said property owners would be able to
make more informed decisions before their purchase.
CHAIR KOHRING said he did not intend to move the bill out; he
just wanted to inform the committee about the bill.
Number 1030
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH asked how advance acquisition of property
could take place before engineering - the time after which most
projects receive their funding.
MR. KRIEBER answered by saying it is an issue to be looked at.
He said it comes down to federal funding. He referred back to
the Parks Highway example and said the federal government would
have reimbursed the department if it had advance-purchased the
right-of-way; the money saved by taking advantage of the lower
price could have gone into other projects.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH posited that a special fund might be
required to allow the state to make advance purchases in lieu of
federal reimbursement. He asked if such a fund was part of the
bill.
MR. KRIEBER answered that there was no such fund within the
bill, but he said the bill would provide the language in statute
[that would allow a fund]. He said it would require two
separate steps.
Number 0987
CHAIR KOHRING mentioned a similar idea voiced in the previous
meeting by the department; he said the Department of
Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF) was in support of
the bill [but see testimony by Mr. Poshard at the current
hearing specifying support for the original version].
Number 0980
REPRESENTATIVE SCALZI mentioned that he'd heard the bill in the
House Community and Regional Affairs Standing Committee meeting
earlier that day, and the committee had passed it out [as a
committee substitute (CS), CSHB 500(CRA)]. He stated that it
was comforting to know that if DOT&PF purchased property through
eminent domain and then later decided the property was not
needed, the original owners, or their heirs, had first right of
refusal to buy the property back at the original price.
Number 0942
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked what would happen if, for example,
an environmental impact study prevented a project from going
through.
MR. KRIEBER referred to Section 5 of the bill as an example. He
said the same language is used for each entity given eminent
domain for advance acquisition.
Number 0832
DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities, testified
before the committee. He told the committee the department
supports the concept behind HB 500, but would prefer the
original version. Mr. Poshard said a high potential for savings
makes it a good opportunity. He made reference to a project for
which the construction portion of the project costs $16 million,
while the right-of-way portion costs $22 million.
Number 0748
MR. POSHARD said the bill would help in a statement that makes a
claim for the need of a piece of property. If state funds could
be used for advance acquisition, it would be much easier because
of the strings attached to federal monies. The difference
between the original bill and the CS [CSHB 500(CRA)] is Section
5. The CS would require the state to sell the property to the
original property owner at the original cost. He expressed his
understanding of the need to give a property owner a benefit
that may been received, should that property owner have retained
the property, but the state would be investing state funds on a
piece of property that the owner could be [using for investment]
otherwise. He expressed reservations about giving the entire
amount of value gained on the property to the property owner.
The state would be losing property over time.
Number 0584
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH reminded the committee that many times
the department takes land by eminent domain. The property
owners are not being given a benefit; they are being taken from.
He said the department is not in the business of making money;
it is in the business of saving money.
MR. POSHARD agreed there are times when the department takes
property from people who don't want it taken, but they are
compensated at least for fair market value, by federal law.
Original property owners should get some benefit. He expressed
his concern, however, about loss to the state over time. He
added that it would only be in a limited number of cases.
Number 0489
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH recommended that AIDEA [Alaska Industrial
Development and Export Authority] be involved in any potential
fund developed for the bill's purpose.
Number 0418
WENDY LINDSKOOG, Director, External Affairs, Alaska Railroad
Corporation (ARRC), testified before the committee. She said
all of the time and effort that goes into preparing the land is
expensive, whether it is used or not. Some of the value gained
when a piece of land is sold back to the original owner at its
original price could go towards offsetting those costs. It
might be an incentive to see large projects go through.
REPRESENTATIVE KOOKESH said the public doesn't care about that.
When [the ARRC] thinks about its own interest, that is fine, but
[the legislature] must think about the public interest.
MS. LINDSKOOG expressed her appreciation of Representative
Kookesh's point. She said the federal government allows for the
"mitigating risk" concept when looking at property acquisitions.
She expressed ARRC's support of the bill in its original form.
[HB 500 was held over.]
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Transportation Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:45
p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|